2.  Conversation: From “Truth is objective”  To “It is reasonable to Believe in God.”

I have a lot of questions but I am willing to re-think my way of thinking about Truth …and God.  As much as I might like to believe the equal value of all personal opinions and personal truth, it would not surprise me to learn that there is something more.  There probably is more to Truth than what I think about it -  more than my opinions and perceptions.  Sciences reveal  truth about the physical world but there are things science does not explain.  Questions about origins and purpose.  I never thought much about this because I thought we can’t know  - it is just a vain and speculative pursuit.  But maybe it isn’t!  We can know! That is evidently the conclusion of most people who have thought this through.

But  how do you convince me that one of those truths out there is God?  God is in the realm of faith; not reason and science and hard evidence.  Just because I am willing to believe in a God does not make it likely that I will.  At this point I do not think you will be able to convince me.

Some people may not need much convincing, but you do!  …which is fine.  To believe or not believe is a decision but decisions are fed with information.  I am glad you are interested in that.  We have already talked about the reasonableness of Truth existing and being known.  Asking questions is good.  However, the committed skeptic will always doubt and that is not good.  

I know.  I am willing to possibly believe things that go beyond science.  Everything  has to come from something.  I believe in order, reason and consciousness.  I cannot explain how this came about from disorder, non reason and unconscious.  You have made sense there but I  cannot explain God.  As I see it, God or the unseen spiritual realm is like a big bin where people toss all their unanswered questions.  The more we know, the more we can explain and the less we need to attribute to God.  At the rate we are going, I believe we will eventually have a good explanation for most things in the universe.

I agree.  I also think the more we learn, more questions are raised and the more problems there are to solve and the more apt I am to believe in God!

Explain that.

The details of creation strike me with awe.  I think they are intended to impress.  You have heard I am sure of the Argument from Design.  If we see design, we can assume there is a Designer.

Not necessarily.  Just because salt crystals and snow flakes have design, there does not have to be a God.  I can see how they naturally occur.

I  admit, explaining them is probably simple to a chemist.  However, the biologist says there is nothing simple about living matter.   Plants and animals, living things and living creatures are amazing: Web making spiders, globe trotting terns, killer jellyfish the size of your thumb….  With the microscope we now know the one celled bacteria are just as fascinating as tropical fish.  Within the cell are parts and each part has a function.  And if every part does not work right, there is no life.

That is because life has evolved and has gone from simple to complex, just like Darwin said.

Darwin had theories but did not have much of a microscope.  Evolution explains some changes but not how something as complicated and unlikely as life changes forms or just happened naturally. 

Given enough time and opportunity it can happen.

Darwin did not know about DNA molecules.  They are really complex.  And they make really complex proteins.  And they make really complex cells.  Even if you believe in an old earth, something like 3 billion years, you only have 9 zeroes after the 3.  That is not nearly as many as you would need to give “chance” a chance.  You would need thousands and thousands and then you still have questions about how genes and chromosomes reproduce and pass on information.  You do not have to be religious to believe something, or better yet, Someone, thought it up and put the process together. 

But you cannot prove it.

I do not need to.  I just need to make a decision based on the evidence I have.  The evidence is pretty impressive.

If there is a God He would make the evidence very good. He might do something like write it in the clouds.

Even that would not convince a skeptic.

That’s true.

But it is interesting that you brought up clouds.  I believe in a Designer not just because of the microscope but also because of the telescope.

Was not Galileo and his telescope criticized by the church for leading people away from God? 

He led them away from simple answers.  He really led them to the Truth.  Last time I mentioned that Reason is a friend of  Faith.  So is the microscope and teleoscope.  Science is a friend of Faith!

Since when are astronomers known for their faith in God?

No profession is known for producing faith in God.  Astronomy is not an obstacle and there is plenty of “design” out there to observe.

Edwin Hubble discovered the universe beyond the Milky Way.  And there is an estimated 100 billion  galaxies.  There are many potential places for life to form on its own.

Again, you are only dealing with a number with only 10 or 11 zeros.  If you are looking at the odds of a planet as unique as earth, that is not nearly enough.

You have to be kidding.  To think that our planet is unique in the universe is ridiculous.

We may not be unique but for there to be another earth it is not only an unlikely long shot, it would be far, far away.

Not according to Carl Sagan.

The information in books like Privileged Planet, The Evidence of Fine Tuning and Rare Earth came out after Carl Sagan died.

It turns out our Sun is a rare star.  Its in a stable spiral galaxy, neither too close nor too far away from the center, nor in a spiral arm and not near exploding stars and lethal radiation.  That star need just the right amounts of oxygen, carbon and about 30 other essential elements for life.

Then you need a planet with a circular, not the more common elliptical orbit: a belt neither too close nor too far away from the star.  This planet needs a large close planet like Jupiter to shield us from comets.  Other planets like Mars and Venus as a shield for asteroids.

The planet needs to rotate, rotate on a tilt to dissipate heat and have a large moon whose gravity holds this in place.  You need an iron core for a magnetic field and ozone for more protection from radiation.  You need water:  Not ice or evaporated water. 

Alright, I get it.

But there is so much more.  Our size is just right or we would stay too hot or cool down too fast.  Our crust is just right for our mountains and magnetic shield.  We have just the right number of venting volcanoes, just the right kind of atmosphere for reflecting sunlight.  There are dozens of thousand to one chances.

So… crediting this to a Designer is not a stretch.

It’s a stretch only for the person who does want to believe.

I remember you saying that last time.  Truth and God is discovered only by those who want to find.

No one will ever compel you to believe.  That must come from you…or Him!

Believing in a Designer does not make me a Christian.

Correct.  At this point all we are talking about is accepting the evidence for objective Truth outside my experience and acknowledging the evidence of a Designer, or Creator.

But you would like me to believe in the God of the Bible.

The God in the Bible is referred to over and over as Creator.  It is good to give that characteristic all the attention it needs. 

You have mentioned some evidences for some kind of God… and I have never thought about that.  If I am to believe in God, why not some other God?

I am glad you are asking that question.  Could we talk more about what it means to believe in the God of the Bible?

I would like that.

Continue with Conversations, 3.